Eliminate K and DEF

[Commissioner]

Eliminate the K and Team DEF positions entirely.

[tbparker]

What is the argument in favor of this? My initial inclination is against.

[Commissioner]

Wasn't one submitted. Just said to eliminate those positions. I know some people don't like playing with them because they are a bit more random than some of the offensive skilled positions. Just a personal preference I guess.

[PhiladelphiaEagles]

I vote against it, they are still relevant in dynasty deep leagues... I can see how they are unneeded in 10-12 team leagues but I strategized to spend money on K/DEF and the difference is noticeable. Yes, it's a bit more random, but maybe instead of eliminating them we adjust the scoring to make them more relevant.

[bthoman]

I would vote YES on this! I am more in favor of eliminating kickers than defenses, but I would be good with both. Kickers are too random. It will be an industry standard within a few years.

[ThunderingLlama]

I vote against this idea.

[PackerSteve]

No to this idea

[bthoman]

Jake Ciely of The Athletic is so #BanKickers that he played in a 12 team league and did not start a kicker the entire season while his opponents did. He won the league! If that doesn't prove how useless kickers are, then I don't know what does!

[Patriots]

Against to this idea

[bthoman]

For the record, this was not my proposal, but I can't believe the lack of support. Not a lot of progressive thinkers apparently.

[PackerSteve]

Horrible idea dude. Sorry.

[bthoman]

Why is it a horrible idea? Like I said, it wasn't my idea, but I totally understand it. There is way too much variance in kickers from week to week and year to year. I prefer trying to take some of the randomness out of an already random game.

I would love to hear why it is a horrible idea.

[PackerSteve]

It's fantasy. Everything varies from week to week and year to year. This dynasty league is 1 year in and now you wanna take out 2 positions altogether? Teams were just built from scratch a year ago. Good grief fellas.... maybe some here should just start a new league that's nothing like this one and let those of us enjoy this league that were actually ok with the rules stated when we joined.

[jamesosteen]

I've seen the recent trend of playing without a kicker and team def, but called me old fashioned. I understand the argument and don't necessarily disagree with it, but I'm just used to playing with them so to play without them feels weird. I would probably vote no to eliminate them.

[Seahawks]

Kill the kicker, keep the def.

[Ragnark78]

against

[rafastw]

Yes.

[ennelson7]

No

[Bills - Trent]

Kickers are a waste of space in fantasy. I'd have no problem getting rid of them. It is a little weird to have an entire team defense when you are playing in a dynasty league. When you are building a dynasty team you can build it with a certain philosophy in mind. Then you just have to roll the dice with an entire defensive team that is dependent on the actual NFL team re-signing and signing free agents, drafting well, and hiring a good DC year after year. You can't draft a young defense that you think has talent and promise and wait for it to develop like you can a QB for instance. That being said, I don't really like IDP either. They score like kickers. We don't draft OL and they are arguably the most important part of a team. Nobody is playing fantasy football to draft a RG. I would doubt very seriously anyone is playing fantasy football for the opportunity to draft the Broncos defense or Will Lutz. I'd be fine not having either but I'd settle for the baby step of no kicker. I know I'm in the minority here so let me have it! I'm ready!

[Rams]

I motioned for this change. Here's why I think we should remove them from our league.

1. Each owner can only roster 2 players for each position. There are only 32 starting K and DSTs, so all should be rostered. This eliminates our ability to do any type of streaming for these positions. This league is not built to have such restricted players/position. In my opinion, the ability of an owner to pick quality skill position players, manage salaries, and start the best line up each week from a pool of players larger than 2 for those positions is what this league is all about. Not flipping a coin and hoping your K or DST doesn't shit the bed this week.
2. The points/game spread between the top, bottom and average just don't compare to the other positions. It is not often that a swing of 3 points will impact on a W or L.

2018 Kickers: Top=9.18, Avg=6.8, Low=4.3
2018 DST: Top=12, Avg=6.82, Low=2.69, removing the 2 extremes (CHI and OAK): Top=9.38, Avg=6.8, Low=3.13

In conclusion, we as owners would be better off concentrating on managing the positions we have actual pools to choose from and make a difference from week to week. Eliminating these two positions will free up 2-4 roster spots and a handful in cap space that we can use for a more exciting experience!

[Commissioner]

Rams owner does present the facts well. Very good statistical argument. Thanks for sharing.

[Washington Redskins]

I would lean towards no on this one.
I get that they are more random which is why I never invest much in them, but I do enjoy letting others overpay for them. I did try to get two above average d/st's since I knew streaming was not an option, so that I'd have two decent options to choose from. I'd probably be okay with getting rid of kickers but let me keep my d/st.

[detroitlions]

I understand the argument for removing K and DST from our league. But i also think the unpredictability these positions bring is a little fun. But i dont have any issue if people want to remove these positions. I am good either way on this one.

[rafastw]

No one willing to change their votes after the arguments from Bills and Rams? Come on, people!

[PackerSteve]

Nope

[EKuz3082]

I'm good either way. Don't really like the idea of having to budget for 2 kickers and defenses to account for the bye weeks, so I guess I'd lean more in favor of getting rid of them.

[Jash13]

My vote is no here. I understand the arguments for removing the positions, but they are a year late unfortunately since this league has already started and some owners have chosen to spend a little extra on K and DEF compared to other owners. Therefore it’s too late to remove the position and disadvantage the teams that valued them more than others.

[Bucs Freemann]

Voting against

[Taxman14]

Nope

[BadWolf13]

Keep def only

[ThunderingLlama]

I vote no... I want to keep Ks and DEFs